Issues and Discussions

Explanation to newly added things in forum.
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Sagacchi
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Sagacchi » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:18 pm

no, my decision is made with all my heart! cuz i tried to adress you in so many different ways,
so nice that you feel cozy, too nice, nice, sarcastic, harsh, not critizising anything even tho i want to, etc etc etc
and when i asked for re-records, you automatically said "i know i f*cked up"


it doesnt make sense anymore, so i won't comment on you anymore, unless you change ^^



and no, i'm not mad or anything, i still love my hani, cuz after all we've gone thru etc... ... ahh how to say it.. i mean, ur precious to me <3

but as much as i can love someone as a good friend, there might be things that piss me off
for you it's this issue here :P


like i said, my decision is done. ^^
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby hanipazui » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:25 pm

you have only asked me to re-record 2 times...
it's more embarrassing to notice that you have dayum up the song when it's released than asked to be re-recorded..
same with mixing...
dunno are people afraid to ask that from me or what it is?
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Sagacchi » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:38 pm

for me the answer to your question is "yes" :/
cuz even tho i "only" asked twice...
the reaction to both times was so frustrating X_X so i never asked again
and sometimes (not as often though) its the same with mixing
when i get asked "hey, tell me what i should change" i think people expect me to be honest and i go "change this this this this" ...
and when i did this to you, you also were reacting miffed >_<

do you understand why i stopped asking you for re-records or changes in the mixing? D: you have to understand how frustrating this is, and how much it confuses me to be expected to be honest and then it turns out the person cant actually take the honesty DX
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby hanipazui » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:51 pm

then I have to just feel sorry for everyone who gets me in their projects and team...
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Sagacchi » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:52 pm

you gotta explain that logic to me then? :/
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby SitD » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:01 pm

It is not an edit, because many people have started commenting here already. I'll just post this massive unfinished piece of words here. It is by far not complete and only holds some of my opinions. I will be posting more in the days to come.



Introduction

I will begin this essay, as one might call it, with replying to previous made statements. Secondly I will address some issues that have not been brought up yet. There will be no use of smilies or little jokes to make things supposedly ‘more polite’, since one; I am very serious about what I will be writing next, two; I find it hypocritical and cowardly and I always try and stay far away from using that method. Why do I find it hypocritical; you say one thing but manipulate it into something else. Why do I find it cowardly; masking your opinions is not doing honor to your thoughts and feelings. If you are too scared to voice them, then better not say them at all, since the primary goal of your opinions has lost its purpose anyway. A third reason why I avoid smilies: There is no need in presenting myself giddier or friendlier, as I am that already. Even when you might think otherwise, think again, because my words are never written with a harsh mindset, but a kind one.

On to the first part of my self-claimed essay.


1. Dialogue

1.1 Saga

“either we deal with it, or we forbid honest comments ^^”

A statement I completely stand by. I already explained this to Kathi, but I will bring it up again. Comments are only part of the whole Karaoke experience. I am not degrading its importance, I recognize that feedback is a necessary part in trying to grow and improve yourself. That’s is why I always put effort in giving decent, useful comments including good and bad aspects. But there’s a very important ‘but’ here! Comments are not the most vital part. What is important is that you enjoy yourself while singing and recording. There’s no person other than you, who knows the effort you put into everything. So whatever anyone writes, whether it is praise or critique, in the end you know the truth. It is up to you to be wise enough to deal with it. That’s it. Deal with it. Deal with it in an adult way. You can ignore a comment, you can try and understand why a person said what they said and not take everything personally or you can follow the feedback to do better next time. There’s nothing more to it. Don’t let a comment make or break your mood, it’s not worth it. Read, understand, smile and move on. Don’t dwell on it just because it hurt your pride.


“cuz people also do complain if they always get the same "you did a good job" comment over and over again!”

It is indeed better to have a more detailed comment, than only “I liked your parts”. Admitted, it can be very hard to say something original if you simply “like” someone’s lines. If there’s nothing particularly bad, then there’s nothing more you can say. Nonetheless, there are times when someone’s singing or rapping invites to a more detailed comment. In most cases it involves highlighting flaws, but then I point to Saga’s earlier statement: “Either we deal with it, or we forbid honest comments”.


“But certain people even take re-record-requests as a hidden message "ur parts suck, go make it better (even tho im sure you cant)" and/or they feel embarassed they even got asked. Best examples here are Hani (again), Casa and just recently ....Rhea i think?”

If people (referring in general) are embarrassed by being asked to re-record that’s their problem. If they cannot see that a re-recording is all for improving the mix, for improving the team result, that’s not something anyone should be bothered with, except themselves. Be grateful you’re given the chance to do better and shove your pride into the nearest corner. We are all BRIANS, we are friends, we are family. No one will want to hurt you, no one will want to crush your confidence.

Don’t be mistaken, I do too have grudging feelings when asked to re-record, how could I not. I have my pride and self-conscious feelings just as everybody does. But I deal with it. I turn my disappointed feelings into energy for improving my recordings. When asked to re-record it means the mixer knows you can do better. It’s a token of faith, not of insult.


“Sure, being asked to make a re-record sometimes might feel a bit weird. And soon we will have the official rule.. wait, or did we announce it already?... that re-record requests must, from now on, be asked in private. like a private message here in the forum, or on twitter or facebook.”

This is something I do not agree with. Asking in private, equals indulging in the uncertainties of a BRIAN. It is protecting their embarrassment and allowing it to exist. BRIANS should learn there is nothing to be ashamed of, they need to be shown and helped how to let go of that feeling of low self esteem. By making re-recording requests a private issue, not only you avoid the problem instead of solving it, but it creates a whole operational sidetrack. It takes the use away from a forum. A topic is created for discussing and giving information about the project. It’s inefficient to take that task away from it and place it to other various channels.


“Or just do it like Stef, and tell people to effin ask you to do a re-record, or you get mad or something :P ... Like.. after Stef's post in the past, I dont dare NOT to ask her HAHA”

And I am glad my request stuck with you.


“Hani, Casa, New, YouJu (sometimes), Tammy, Cho (sometimes), Stef (sometimes), Sai (sometimes)... when thinking of members with no self esteem, you guys come to my mind.”

I do indeed am insecure about myself, especially in singing. Rapping has become my forte and I’m confident about it, but that does not take away I can’t hear my own flaws or acknowledge other people’s comments. Yes, in the past I was a person who apologized for taking down a team, but I stepped away from that, thanks to you and Meike. The more I thought of about it, the more I understood that it’s really annoying to read such comments. So now I always try to evaluate the good and bad aspects of myself within my own abilities.


1.2 Tammy

“I feel like Steffy and you are two of the most honest people here, always says exactly what you think and I like that about you. Not saying some of the comments couldn't be a bit more subtle though XD”

I am glad my honesty is appreciated, because sometimes I feel like shutting up forever. But then I remind myself that I don’t want to be a coward, so I persist. Regarding the subtleness of my comments, I cannot perceive when I need to be more subtle and when not. Is it that my mindset is so ignorant that I think people know me well enough to understand what I say? It probably is then.


1.3 Kathi

“I don't even think it should be more subtle. You guys always stay more or less (let's hope for more now XD) friendly and try to state the facts as they are~ That's what's important, and if people come here without wanting to improve, then well, they gotta live with bad critics as long as they are active here.”

Thank you Kathi. I won’t change my ways, this including the non-existing subtleness and the always present friendly intentions of my comments.
I very much agree with your last sentence. I have nothing to add to that, looking at the fact that I explained myself regarding that issue in the replies above. Also you are not being mean, you simply state a straight forward truth that more people should live by. Whether in BR or simply in real life.


To Be Continued
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Sagacchi » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:13 pm

keke it really feels like an essay, stef! but i actually enjoy reading through it like reading through a good book haha ^^

but i gotta say... ...
i mean, im no big fan of the soon-to-come rule that we keep re-record-requests private either
but i have another point of view on this, as I'm one of the admins... i mean, I'm not someone who's shy to adress some issues (or this topic wouldnt exist xD) . but if there are at least some little chance to avoid arguements or hurted feelings, and if i feel it's not having a too big affect on the honesty of people, then i gotta risk using this chance. just from the point of view of a mod.

but i agree, that we all should actually learn not to take those things personal... just like you say - if you are asked to do a re-record, it probably just means the person thinks you can do better
and this is actually a good thing!!! ^-^




@hani
still waiting for ur answer but wanted to add something >.<
i mean like... i dont understand the logic behind what you say there, because its not like the only option you have >.< its not even one of the good ones..

a good one would be to promise us, not to be sad or not to feel bad about your skills when we as for re-recordings/changes in the mixings :3

if you promise this, and keep you promise in the future, then there won't be any problem anymore ^___^
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Firefly » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:25 pm

I am glad my honesty is appreciated, because sometimes I feel like shutting up forever. But then I remind myself that I don’t want to be a coward, so I persist. Regarding the subtleness of my comments, I cannot perceive when I need to be more subtle and when not. Is it that my mindset is so ignorant that I think people know me well enough to understand what I say? It probably is then.


By subtle I mean to avoid comments like, 'ugh when I got to your parts my ears hurt'. Just an example, I know you didn't say that, but sometimes there are things that can sound a bit unkind, even though you don't mean it like that.
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby hanipazui » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:02 pm

I know that I ain't awesome even if I wanna be...and I may never even grow up to like my voice...it may be decent in some songs tough...
I'm a person with very low selfesteem and that's propably because of my past...I wasn't always like this...'tho that's very typical to finnish people...I envy the people who can sing when someone is able to hear you who is not your family member or sing in public without being totally drunk to be able to get your voice out without being paniced whole time thinking what others think about...
I remember that once Ani told me that I sound like I'm scared of the mic, but thank god I have got rid of that with years...
but still I wanna challenge myself with harder songs and parts and see that I'm actually able to do them...

but I won't mind if people asks me to re-record or remix...yes...I'm bad with taking critic, but at least I know that...it's not likew I will bite you or come haunting behind your window if you do so..I want us to get awesome releases, but it won't work if no one asks me to do so and in the end I'm the only one who will suck in the team...
yes I may feel offended and annoyed 1st about the fact and curse in my mind that I have to record again some part where I didn't notice that I messed up or it wasn't made right or I didn't hear something...but I will do it 'cos I know that I have to do it if we wanna get awesome result...I'm not mad to the person who asks me even if may sometimes look like it, but I'm mad to myself because I didn't notice before submitting my parts..>.< it's worst to see no one ask you to record again and in release see that you actually failed and that makes you skip all parts where you can hear your voice in the song 'cos you can't make any changes to your parts anymore and they will stay like that forever...
and it's same with mixings...I know that I'm not a bad mixer...but sometimes in the end song starts to sound annoying if everything doesn't sound just the way I like I get annoyed too, not because of the person who says me to do changes but again to myself...
I have used now at least 2 different people to beta my mixings before release and I don't mind if they say that "hey...that part comes a bit early, you messed up timing here or she is too silent, use different effect etc.." but I hope that those things will be said before release...after release it makes me just to wanna disappear for a while because of letting so many people down...

wahh...dunno if my wrtiting makes any sense..
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Kyllia » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:11 pm

SitD wrote:“Sure, being asked to make a re-record sometimes might feel a bit weird. And soon we will have the official rule.. wait, or did we announce it already?... that re-record requests must, from now on, be asked in private. like a private message here in the forum, or on twitter or facebook.”

This is something I do not agree with. Asking in private, equals indulging in the uncertainties of a BRIAN. It is protecting their embarrassment and allowing it to exist. BRIANS should learn there is nothing to be ashamed of, they need to be shown and helped how to let go of that feeling of low self esteem. By making re-recording requests a private issue, not only you avoid the problem instead of solving it, but it creates a whole operational sidetrack. It takes the use away from a forum. A topic is created for discussing and giving information about the project. It’s inefficient to take that task away from it and place it to other various channels.


I'll have to disagree.. with your disagreement if that makes sense. Not everything should be a public matter and it does not necessarily equal 'indulging in the uncertainties of a BRIAN'. I think it's respectfully giving privacy where privacy is due. Some matters are better off being discussed alone so the parties involved can say what they really want to say to each other. So I think in that sense it fosters a conversation that can be completely honest. And yes, you can argue that we should be completely honest privately and 'publicly' on the forum but I'm going to tell you that it may not happen that way. It's human nature to always consider what other people may think of you and there are things you may feel comfortable saying privately but you will not say publicly.

I think this is almost equivalent to being in school and the teacher asks you a question that you answer wrong and they tell you you're wrong in front of your friends and classmates. Some people may be like 'whatever' but others may be embarrassed to be singled out like that. Or another example would be your parent scolding you for doing something wrong in front of your friends. Again, it's human nature to not like being 'wrong' so if them being wrong is brought to attention it may make them feel bad. And maybe you're right about the 'protecting their embarrassment' thing but I see nothing wrong with doing what you can to prevent people from being upset and embarrassed. Some people are just more sensitive about certain things than others and you can't exactly expect everyone to react the same way in a situation. Honestly, a lot of this is just from my experience and because I am a Psychology major. There is never one right way to deal with every person but I think in this case, the safe way is to bring up re-recording privately.
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby newismyname » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:23 pm

WHOAA SO MUCH WRITING. LOLOLOL

Just so everyone knows, I got kinda lazy after a while and skimmed/didnt read some of the really long..all bunched up comments (lol) cause really my eyes were like HELP ME. So if I address something that already was address, then im sorry! HERE GOES.

It's been like an hour since ive read the first post that saga put about the "topics of discussion" so I'm just gonna talk about what I think is wrong/should fix about the forum or whatever and just hope that it stays within topic! LOL

First things first, is for re-recordings.
Most of you know that I'm part of AK (asian karaoke) too so I actually really love BR for the fact that we can ask for re-recordings. For those who follow my twitter, you guys know that I abuse my poor twitter with mixing frustrations. Why? YES. Even though its a truth hard to accept, I DO GET FRUSTRATED WITH RECORDINGS WHEN I MIX. Yanno all the old reason, maxing out, horrible mic qualities, horrible..timing issues(?), and so on. Why i spat out on twitter? i dont know. LOL twitter is like my squishy toy. when people get stressed, they squish their squishy toy. I spam twitter.

Some people might read this and go "oh, is New talking about my recordings? is she?" if you've noticed, I never mention any names. I just...blabber about what someone did wrong and how it frustrates me. Whether that person knows or not, i dont know. but i make sure to never mention names.

Karaoke is fun--is supposed to be fun, but as I've mentioned a few while back in Steff's pp..this really is a group effort. We all here are at different levels (please..take this in the best way possible >>). Some of us are amazingly pro, some of us are still very noob, and some of us are around the middle. There is GOING to be someone who goes way off tune, cant seem to pick up the right tempo, maxes out, has horrible mic qualities. so what can you do? YOU CANT. You can ask to rerecord but..how many times can you really ask before the other person goes "...again?".

It's a team effort it really is. EVERYONE wants to have the best sounding team. everyone wwants to have the perfect team. You cant. Rerecordings are meant so that we can make the team sound better. not that you SUCK. but we (as mixers) are trying to make this team/mix sound the best we can. so if one person gets mad for rerecording and then..just doesnt rerecord..dont come back to the released PP and COMPLAIN. MY GOD. You didnt want to fix it, so dont complain. please.

I know I'm missing certain points that I wanted to make but my brain is like as;odifjasdf. But ALL IN ALL, my whole point is..you cant control what other people think.
If they hate you for telling them to rerecord, then...who cares. they hate you. end of story, your life moves on.
if they hate you for giving them honest (but not too mean) criticism...then who cares. they hate you, end of story, life moves forward.

After a while (cause you wont meet a place/forum/school watever that is 100% good people), I just learn to live with it. I may have people to hate me but you know what, I also have people who like me. Why would you let yourself be down or upset over one person when you were just trying to help? its pointless. dont bother wasting your precious time or brain cells to think about petty things like that. They took it the wrong way? too bad!

ANOTHER THING! modesty. LOL I accept that I do say i hate my recordings. but i really do LOLOL. but yanno, I'd seriously rather have someone say they hate their recordings than just come out saying "i sound so amazing here". idk. I've been in a huge team sport for long long...long years so hearing people brag really does annoy me. Even if its a little it kinda like...screws your value. LOL IDK THATS JUST ME. So modesty is the way to go for me :3

LOL I SOUND SO MEAN IN THIS but this is just all in all what i think 8D so listen..bash..talk behind my back about how mean or if i ever bashed you or whatever. i dont give a ...darn. I do this cause i enjoy it and its fun. so yeah. LIFE MOVES ON!
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Sagacchi » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:46 am

this doesnt necessarily have to do with the topic now, but... I feel so proud of this topic and the people that write here *_* im surprised to read so many major sounding opinions!
also, whatever i read here so far, i found myself nodding in agreement to so many things xD or like "yeahh shes wrong with that, i should think about it this way"

so awesome *-*

i cant really answer much now cuz i should actually be on the way to meet bigi and casa *cough cough* IM SO SORRY FOR BEING LATE AGAIN YOU TWO!



but!
i gotta say to new, that i can understand... .. i can understand that you prefer people hating their parts than bragging about it >w< and i also wrote something like "im not asking people to be all like 'look how awesome i sound there' " .. but I'd prefer a middle way
i'd prefer if people wouldnt hate on their actually really good parts, and would be at least a biiit satisfied with their parts (or really satisfied), but keep their proudness to theirselves keke
i mean, like for me its like this somehow!
i was reaaally satisfied with my recording in my miss A project, but i didnt brag about it kekeke


annnd dont worry about sounding mean new, i think it didnt feel this way at all :33 <3
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby hanipazui » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:06 pm

I'm disappointed 'cos Ani doesn't answer me even if I tried to explain my logic to her just 'cos she wanted to hear it..
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Sagacchi » Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:54 pm

like i wrote on friday, i wasnt able to answer everything. i was late to a bigi+casa-meeting
and there was a convention this weekend so i havent been online except for today, and i had to catch up on so much that i forgot to look into this topic again ^^

but lemme see, imma answer ^^ dont be disappointed please, i explained my reason now ^^
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Sagacchi » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:18 pm

imma quote some parts of your comment and ... comment them XD
let's see...

it may be decent in some songs tough...

yeaaahhh that's a good start *-* it feels good to read that from you once!! kekeke.

I'm a person with very low selfesteem and that's propably because of my past...I wasn't always like this...'tho that's very typical to finnish people...I envy the people who can sing when someone is able to hear you who is not your family member or sing in public without being totally drunk to be able to get your voice out without being paniced whole time thinking what others think about...

is it really a finnish thing? having low self esteem? :/ i dont think all finnish people are like this..i'd be worried hehe.
but i can see that you have reasons (your past, even tho i dont know 100% of it) to have low self esteem ... but still, I'm so sure that lies sooooooo far in the past, and for every human there should be this point, where you say "stop!" , draw a line, and start to live with more self confidence!
sure, not from one day to the other...

i remember, i had the same problem when i was young... i was a loser, people picked on me, i wasnt even anything close to beautiful (i was really ugly!!) and then i met a girl
for some reason she liked me, and she helped me to change myself ... and all she did was telling me to believe more in myself and my abilities >w<;
it really sounds strange, but if that happens to you, i think the best thing to do is open up to this advice..and try it out!
but dont go overboard, or you'll become a meanie like me :P
hehe. but seriously, im not saying im so full of confidence either ^^; ... im still sometimes feeling like poo-poo. i also dont think i have a beautiful voice, BUT i think my singing technique is not so bad!
see what i did? looking for what i like about myself and my abilities >w<;


I remember that once Ani told me that I sound like I'm scared of the mic, but thank god I have got rid of that with years...

i also remember that! and yeah, it was one of the just fewww situations when you listened to me >.< haha. and it worked! you really got rid of that! *-*


but still I wanna challenge myself with harder songs and parts and see that I'm actually able to do them...

i do that too hehe. like i planned to open so cool by SISTAR as my next PP, and i want to try singing hyorin, even tho im kinda scared to.. hehe.
but the important thing is, not to be disappointed if it doesnt work out so well...
always make the best out of it! it shouldnt be something disappointing, but more like an inspiration to work even harder!! ^-^

but I won't mind if people asks me to re-record or remix...yes...I'm bad with taking critic, but at least I know that...it's not likew I will bite you or come haunting behind your window if you do so..I want us to get awesome releases, but it won't work if no one asks me to do so and in the end I'm the only one who will suck in the team...
yes I may feel offended and annoyed 1st about the fact and curse in my mind that I have to record again some part where I didn't notice that I messed up or it wasn't made right or I didn't hear something...but I will do it 'cos I know that I have to do it if we wanna get awesome result...I'm not mad to the person who asks me even if may sometimes look like it, but I'm mad to myself because I didn't notice before submitting my parts..>.< it's worst to see no one ask you to record again and in release see that you actually failed and that makes you skip all parts where you can hear your voice in the song 'cos you can't make any changes to your parts anymore and they will stay like that forever...


yeah i think i already explained... we know that you wont be mad at us!
but.. i mean, i can only talk about myself here, but like you say "i'm bad with taking critics" ... i know that :/ and in the past, i didnt critic you at all cause i was scared to! not because you would be mad at us, but because i knew you would be mad at yourself for it!
but everytime you write "i f**d up" because you got critics or anything, it makes ME feel bad too! it gives me the feeling that you now hate yourself even more because i said something
this might sound a little egoistic, but i dont want to feel bad because you can't take my critic :/
but like i said, i wont comment on your parts anymore. and this is the reason why :/

but i will try to ask you for re-records more often in the future if you want! ^-^ just please dont let me feel your disappointment ! you say, "i curse in my mind" but you actually WRITE about how you suck etc everytime :/ if you would really just curse in your mind, there wouldnt be any problem for me...

and it's same with mixings...I know that I'm not a bad mixer...but sometimes in the end song starts to sound annoying if everything doesn't sound just the way I like I get annoyed too, not because of the person who says me to do changes but again to myself...
I have used now at least 2 different people to beta my mixings before release and I don't mind if they say that "hey...that part comes a bit early, you messed up timing here or she is too silent, use different effect etc.." but I hope that those things will be said before release...after release it makes me just to wanna disappear for a while because of letting so many people down...


i tooooooooooooooooootally understand you here! i cant even disagree at any point here, except for your last sentence!
thinking to let people down because you got critizised on a mixing is a little too much i think. it's too personal! dont let it get to you so much ^^
and if you have beta-listeners, they should be aware that its kind of their responsibility too, when there's something wrong with the mix ^^

wahh...dunno if my wrtiting makes any sense..

it does Image dont worry hanibunny !
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