Issues and Discussions

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SitD
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby SitD » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:50 pm

I'll have to disagree.. with your disagreement if that makes sense. Not everything should be a public matter and it does not necessarily equal 'indulging in the uncertainties of a BRIAN'. I think it's respectfully giving privacy where privacy is due.

There is no such thing as privacy in online karaoke. At least not in open projects in which everyone can join. Those kind of projects are a public matter by nature. Everyone can see who signs up, everyone can look into everyone’s files, everyone can hear the end result of a mix. It –is- a public matter, there’s nothing private or secret about it. There is no need to create this temporary feeling of ‘privacy’ just for the sake of re-recordings.

Some matters are better off being discussed alone so the parties involved can say what they really want to say to each other.

Some matters indeed. If there is a problem between two people, then of course the discussion should happen through different media than a thread. But mere re-recordings don’t require “honest feelings” to be expressed. It doesn’t involve the expression of a personal opinion. It is simple statement of the wishes the mixer has about how certain lines can be improved, whether someone was off-pitch, or doesn’t match the rhythm of the original song. It does not involve a kind of extended dialogue; it’s a question, some explanation and an answer. Nowhere in that process are there moments where “parties involved can say what they really want to say to each other”.


I think this is almost equivalent to being in school and the teacher asks you a question that you answer wrong and they tell you you're wrong in front of your friends and classmates. Some people may be like 'whatever' but others may be embarrassed to be singled out like that. Or another example would be your parent scolding you for doing something wrong in front of your friends.

I think those examples you chose make asking for re-recordings a whole lot more dramatic than it is. I’ve said it again, it’s –just- asking for re-recordings. No one is scolding anyone, no is rubbing anyone’s face in their mistakes, no one is laughing at anyone. I don’t think people even spare a second thought if they read in a topic that someone else was made to re-record. More differences lie in the fact that the singer has already had the chance to record well and already had the chance to ask for help. They are not ‘singled out’ for no reason. The mixer is also not the bad person or the scolder, but is in fact the good person for giving a second chance and helping the singer improve.


Again, it's human nature to not like being 'wrong' so if them being wrong is brought to attention it may make them feel bad. And maybe you're right about the 'protecting their embarrassment' thing but I see nothing wrong with doing what you can to prevent people from being upset and embarrassed.

Of course being pointed at your mistakes doesn’t feel good for anybody. But it is not ‘hurting’ anyone. Being ‘upset’ is nothing but your pride being tarnished or having a temporary dent in your self-esteem. People get over it, and if they don’t they should be helped to get over it. Helping them by showing that it is not a big deal, that is not something to take personal, that it is for the greater good. Taking a simple act as requesting re-recordings and making it a private matter as is saying: “Why yes, you are indeed 100% right to feel upset. But don’t worry, we will ease your pain.”
If you want to prevent people from feeling embarrassed , then make everything a private issue. Make the recordings private, make the final mix private and disable any honest commenting. The thing is you can’t. You can’t protect people from feelings that come from within themselves. That ‘hurting’ feeling and embarrassment, comes from their own self-esteem or their own ego. It is not directly induced by a mixer having a simple request for re-recordings or by a comment someone gives.

Some people are just more sensitive about certain things than others and you can't exactly expect everyone to react the same way in a situation. Honestly, a lot of this is just from my experience and because I am a Psychology major. There is never one right way to deal with every person but I think in this case, the safe way is to bring up re-recording privately.

No, you can’t expect everyone the react the same at first. But you can teach them. And doesn’t require any extra effort or any detouring communication. By not giving re-recordings this special attention and just letting things run as they always have, people will get used to it. They will learn the working methods of this forum. Just as the setting deadlines, just as asking for a beta, just as delivering your recordings and mixes on time. It’s all part of the process.
There is indeed never a right way to deal with people, that makes taking the safe way just as bad as being straight forward. In the end I guess we differ in the way we look at people. It seems to me that you prefer being careful around people and protect their feelings, while I just don’t care for all that chitchat and like to get to the point. That doesn’t mean I want to hurt, as you know (I hope) I’m a friendly and helpful person. I just rather give people a friendly kick in the butt to make them get over themselves than putting my time and energy in dealing with their issues.
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Kyllia
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Kyllia » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:01 am

:) I think we really do differ in how we look at other people and how we agree on how people should be treated. I do prefer to be more careful because then this way we can avoid conflicts that occur because of the different way people may view things. Sure I agree with you when I read that someone needs a re-recording or I need a re-recording I don't think too much about it or get upset etc. But I do know that some people may see things differently and be more sensitive so that's why I think we need to take that fact into account. You may not see a re-recording as something 'dramatic' or whatever but that is how you see things and others may not be the same. All in all, it would be much easier if everyone saw things the same way but for sure that is not the case and that is why precautions should be put into place.
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby newismyname » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:43 pm

LOL TOOK ME A WHILE TO READ ALL THAT.

Its true that a re-record is a simple matter and..its not really a big deal. But hey yanno, maybe its just being a little considerate for those who have a problem with someone posting right into the thread that "hey i need you to rerecord". Maybe you dont see it as a big thing, others might. Yes, i do agree with the get over it thing. Some people just gotta get over the fact. But just think about this.

If you just PM the person (whoever it might be) about if they need to rerecord or not, it would actually save you..a lot of time. Cause if that person IS sensitive, you PMing them would make things a whole lot better. Blah blah you get their rerecord on time or not that late and bam you mix we have a release YAY.
but when you make ti public through the thread, if they arent sensetive, whoopee. you got lucky. if they are...then here comes the problems. So I'm just going to use rhea's happening in Stef's PP as an example (please dont get upset..just using it as an example..). So rhea got upset. she left the PP. now you gotta go out and find someone to cover for her. that lags the whole PP process. it LAGS.
so for all the ninja's out there, just to save yourself some time, just PM them. Pming people doesnt take a long time. It might take just a few seconds of your life. so yeah. If you dont mind your PP lagging a bit then /SHRUG. whatever floats your boat man.

I still think PMing is better.
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Kyllia » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:52 pm

Lol New "It LAGS" that made me laugh no offence just cause I Know how much that annoys you haha :P
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby newismyname » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:02 pm

LOL IT REALLY DOES. just...pm them. it would save me so much time than to deal with ppls issues. LOLOL no offense anyone >>
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Almighty Cho » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:01 pm

I dunno how you see this, but... (I don't mention the name, but you all know who I'm talking about) still doesn't upload her parts for her PPs... It kinda really annoys me, cause she's semi-strict with covering people but she doesn't meet her own deadlines.
It seems kinda unfair, cause the deadline applies to all singers I think, no matter if project holder, mixer or whoever... (not only looking at 1 member here XD)
I just wanted to get this off my chest, sorry.. *rolls off* ^^"
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Kyllia » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:03 pm

Cho~ I agree rules should be followed and they are there for a reason. For that rule, we made it just in case the mixers/PP Leaders went MIA and even if we know that member will not abandon their responsibility we still want to see everyone following the rules just as a precaution.
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby xKeirafanx » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:18 pm

As for me, I like our rules and they are there for a reason. Especially this one about uploading of the recorded parts for EVERYONE. Not only is it because of the reasons Kyllia mentioned, I also think it is only fair that everyone has to hand their parts in at the deadline, mixer or not. Of course the mixer can still re-record when she's in mixing status, but that's a completely different story.
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby newismyname » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:54 pm

lol just wanted to weigh in here.

I agree.
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Almighty Cho » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:24 pm

I just have to get this off my mind shortly, you don't have to comment on this and please don't take it too personal..

I was SO happy we finally got Sai's old OP to get released! We mixers gave our very best to get the BEST out of the material we got, may it be old takes, bad mic qualities, poo-poo vocal cuts or whatever there could be..

And honestly when I beta-ed Rising Sun (which Anke mixed in a few DAYS before this release though she has work besides!) and Girls on Top and finished my Mr Boogie mix.. man I was SO proud of HOW good this project sounds despite the fact that it is with over one year old recordings in it!

I was so hyped when it got released, but then the first things I read besides the "finally released" were only things like "wow i sucked" "i hate my voice" "this is bad, that is bad" "i want to re-record". ...*breathes in deeply*

People, this release is 1 year old or even older! We ALL improved since then and I'm sure we could all do WAY better today, but this project ISN'T from now, it is old! And regarding the fact that it is and OLD project, I was very proud of HOW GOOD it sounded vocally AND mixed!

And I for myself found the comment of naming the release an "embarassment" just plainly rude. And yeah: I got angry when I read all those negative aspects. It is a fact that we could all do better today, but instead of whining about your old parts , just listen to the songs and ENJOY them, thank the mixers and be happy to know of how much you improved till now.
Just enjoy listening to the "old times", even I can somewhat enjoy my parts in the release though my rap sounded like a dead rock. Oh well, it WAS like that back then, but it isn't anymore today. I'm happy listening to the old things knowing that I could do better today.
And I'm happy that the release sounds so good despite the fact it's old..

Just wanted to get that off my heart, without spamming the release thread..
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Kyllia » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:33 pm

I agree with Cho even though I contributed to a bit of what she said haha. I think it's a great that we finally got it out and I'm proud of us too. Vocally I did horribly on Gee LOL but it was a year ago so it's also really awesome to see how we've improved and stuff :) And I also love how even though we didn't sound our best we still sounded pretty awesome <3

I have yet to have time to hear all the songs but I'm sure they're great~
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby xKeirafanx » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:05 pm

I typed a pretty long text a couple of times, trying to explain myself, but I realized it's going to end up in a argument with everyone repeating their opinon and no one getting anywhere and no understanding on any part, so I cut it off and go with a simple, as friendly as possible, opinion.

When I said "Embarrassment", I did it in reaction to the words of one or two other people. I honestly am embarassed in a bad way about myself in 2 of the 3 songs I'm in, and the other saying they aren't happy about their takes either made me conclude I'm not the only one and wrote the title in a rather joking manner. I realize that I pressed my perceivance into everyone, I'm sorry. I did have also something like "BR's Long Way" in mind, meaning it as in "wow...look where we were, look where we are now", but it didn't completely hit my personal feelings, so I wrote what I wrote instead.

What I didn't realize it the completely DIFFERENT perceivance you guys could have of the title, meaning that I think we all did completely embarassing and it's a shameful release. Meaning that I judge everyone in the release as horrible. As I take, this is how Miri perceived it and this is why she feels offended and I admit that - perceived in that meaning which I really, honestly, and I hope you believe me that, didn't have in mind - yes, it's rude.

So I apologize for saying that and will delete the content in the release post, so no one will feel offended anymore. I honestly didn't mean it that way and I'm sorry for hurting your feelings.


One last thing on behalf on that we should see this in the context of how we developed:
I know. But the problem is that how I perceive myself in, as above mentioned, 2 of 3 songs, is something that has kind of shook my core. I am at this point not able to really laugh it off as "awwwww, but I did get better". You can see the release in all colors of the rainbow and it's fine, however I am, as of now, seeing myself rather grey, not the release, but myself and how poorly skilled I used to be, and I'd like to ask to respect that just as I respect that you are able to laugh and smile about your development.
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Almighty Cho » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:15 pm

I totally understand your opinion on this and I mean your development from then till now it is really huge, cause you improved very much (and still do), so i can understand you feel your parts aren't good, but yeah.. you're not the only one xD that's why i wanted this release just to be a fun manner, rather than a look-at-all-bad-things-that-occured-in-the-recording.. but yeah, we all have different views on that, that's clearly viewable here xD *huggles*

I honestly also didn't feel offended as in we-all-sucked-singing-offended, but i took it more of a view of a mixer, who put in all their hard work to still make the release good.. but i can see that you meant it in a fun manner, so it's okay ^^

sorry for going overboard with that again, i know i still have long way to go with controlling my anger, i hope i didn't attack you personally with this, husbando <3

for the issue again~
i think it can be solved as some kind of misunderstanding again i had? |D'... *bows in apology*

i hope you can still enjoy the outcome of it as a whole a bit and let it be as an old-work-from-ancient-times-release xD
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby xKeirafanx » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:55 pm

Ah, I see. I did mix Red Sun and was rather content with the parts of everyone. And I did re-record my solo stuff (not the group stuff) there. I also didn't mean to offend the mixers. I know it's been some work to pull this off in time, in the end. Really I just...meant it as I said it above.

I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you that we should take this as a lesson or rather experience. I'm personally going to take a little more time to be smiling about it, that's it.

We cleared this up wifey. I'm honestly not mad at you, because hey, at least we talked it out and understand each other better now. That's how it works, ne? Your friendship is more important to me anyway than such a minor misunderstanding on both sides.
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Re: Issues and Discussions

Postby Sagacchi » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:14 am

*cough* Twan and Cho didn't mention this thread for nothing, girls ;)
continue the discussion here pleashi! :)
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